When you lie I call it a lie, find a single lie of mine mate, been here two years. Now, kotj is a gamer, gamers aren't rugby players. All is good

Haha yes, I m done... wow I didn t know such specimen exists.. I will definitely not waste more time here..

Thanks mate, same to you.. good luck to you and your guild! And don’t forget we have to use MBs and match fixing on all games.. ask your guildmates to do the same.. This is what real rugby players do.. ( Black Monks told me that.. so it must be true).

Cheers Black Monks.. the forum is yours.. (take a new belt.. I guess it s now 161 - 0)

Thanks for 26 pages of jobber ish mate. A lot of typing to continue to show you're a hypocrit. Have fun with db, he is just like you

If anybody thinks that playing rugby "in the spirit of the game" means never using a creative interpretation of the rules, a clever way of getting around the rules or even flat out breaking the rules, he has either never actually played a game of proper rugby in his life, or if he did, watched from the sidelines and always came off the field with squeaky clean kit and hair still neatly combed.

Hands up any rugby player who has ever been punched, threw a punch or saw a punch been thrown in the ruck or scrum when the ref wasn't looking. Head butts. Ears being pulled. Eyes being gouged. Or, as Adriaan Strauss so tragically experienced against Argentina, your balls being fondled.

Everybody knows hands aren't allowed over the ball once the ruck has formed, but every attempt is still made by the defending team to slow down the attacking ball in the ruck and they get away with it most times.

What I'm saying is, even if you can't differentiate between real life rugby and a computer game (which seems to be the case with a few), claiming that proper rugby players never bend rules or make use of any tactic they can to get the advantage and that this is "the spirit of the game" is naive.

Rather, as rugby players will know I'm sure, in the spirit of the game players will smash each other for 80 minutes plus injury time, using every tactic under the sun to win, and then laugh about it over a beer afterwards, once the stitches are done and sorted.

Since you claim to play the Rugby Manager game as close as you can to the real thing - "in the spirit of the game", as you say - then I've no doubt that you only play championship and tournament matches once per week. I'm sure you also book friendlies in advance and never surprise anyone with a match unawares. I'm sure that even if you do venture to play in guild challenges (which I'm sure you dont, since such silly things don't happen in real rugby), you only challenge teams that are in the same league / level as you are. I'm sure that if you use substitutes, you always sub mostly your forwards and generally in the 50 - 60 minute window - never earlier unless there's an injury. Oh and if you do happen to suffer injury, I'm sure you also wait out the full recovery period, since after all, no player in real life ever gets injured and told he's out for 6 weeks, only to receive some miracle healing pack and be back on the field the same day.

So look, this, for starters, is a computer game. Play the game however you want. We all have our pet peeves with the game and there are things we wish could be taken out or brought in. We all just have to accept that MB and the Sports Shop are part of the game and we have to decide how we are going to play the game with those things being part of the mix - just like forwards know they're going to get a few cheeky bumps in the rucks. You just have to put your big boy pants on and deal with it.

Nobody likes the match fixing thing either, but its something that people are clearly able to do without being penalised by the game, so players are going to exploit that. Again, no point arguing it's against the spirit of the game and all that. It's part of the "sport" on rugby manager, like it or not. It's up to you to decide if you're going to use your wits and make a way to win around that, or come and throw your rattles out of the cot on the forum. In the spirit of the game, of course.

I will not really come back to the gaming part. You have your view I have mine. I respect yours, respect mine.

On your Rugby comment: “Hands up any rugby player who has ever been punched, threw a punch or saw a punch been thrown in the ruck or scrum when the ref wasn't looking. Head butts. Ears being pulled. Eyes being gouged. Or, as Adriaan Strauss so tragically experienced against Argentina, your balls being fondled.”

I agree... it happens. And the players who punched somebody for nothing or were looking for a fight were always the DUMBEST person(s) in a team.. always.
So, if you want to identify yourself or Rugby to them, that would be your choice. But I wouldn t qualify any of your example as Rugby spirit.

So instead of asking to hands up if you have ever been punched, ask if somebody has ever punched another player for nothing.. Let’s see if we have the same number of hands raised... or if actually you only see 2-3 hands up per team in the second case (the 2-3 dumb players..).
How many “captains” in a team are the ones who look for a fight?
How many of those who punched and injured another player for nothing were actually applauded by his teammates? Really, are you sure?

You re mentioning the dirty examples of this sport that nobody really want in a team. Do you qualify your examples as “Rugby Spirit”? I am curious...

“Everybody knows hands aren't allowed over the ball once the ruck has formed”..
Isn t the referee giving a penalty to the opponent when he sees that? Are you going to say to the referee “No it s not cheating”? You tried to do something that is unfair... so when the referee gives a penalty to the opponent, Nobody will complain.. (but you did something “wrong”.. and if you get caught, youre penalised... which here is not the case.. everybody knows that match fixing is wrong.. but it s forbidden to think that it s cheating?)

“Since you claim to play the Rugby Manager game as close as you can to the real thing - "in the spirit of the game", as you say - then I've no doubt that you only play championship and tournament matches once per week. I'm sure you also book friendlies in advance and never surprise anyone with a match unawares.. etc.”.
??? Again.. I am trying to understand your point...really trying...
Have I ever said it s 100% Realistic? Can you explain me how playing “once a week” is related to “Rugby Spirit”? Is playing once a week a Rugby value for you??
Rugby spirit is Respect (of your teammates, opponents, referee), integrity, sportsmanship (the fairplay that makes you grab a beer with your opponent at the end of the game), discipline, teamwork... etc.. it s not playing a game once a week or book a friendly.. What are you talking about?
Nobody said we want a 100% realistic game. We said we want a game which respect the Rugby spirit..

On your last point... I quote “ nobody like match fixig (or MBs, as mentioned by BM..).. It's part of the "sport" on rugby manager, like it or not. It's up to you to decide if you're going to use your wits and make a way to win around that, or come and throw your rattles out of the cot on the forum. In the spirit of the game, of course.”
I said 100 times (you can go back in the conversation) that I respect both views (gamers who will use all means to win a game... and it s perfectly respectable as it s a game OR the Rugby aficionado who wants to stay closer to the Rugby rules/spirit..).
So, I can just agree with you that “it s up to you to decide” what you wanna do.

The only difference is several people in this forum (e.g. Black M.) do not respect the fact that you can have a different point of view than him. He feels happy to insult people. And if you ask him “Can you say that you respect people who have a different point of view than yours and can perceive match fixing as cheating”... He run away without answering or he will insult you.

And to be honest, I have some difficulties to understand the concept of “Nobody likes it but we still do it...”.. If I don’t like it, I just don’t do it... at the end of the day it s a game.. And I prefer to play the way I like, even if it gives an advantage to my opponent.. I ll survive if I loose a game.
If all of you were saying “we love match fixing and MBs” I would understand..

For me, Winning a championship by using sneaky methods that many players don t use does not have the same taste than winning in a fair way (by not using sneaky methods, even if the game allow them).

Again, everybody has its own way of playing. I respect both. I would also appreciate that people who use MBs etc. respect the people who think it s cheating (even if you don’t agree with that).
Nobody will convince the other side. But Respect should be given to both sides (instead of seeing some insults from some immature people.. or at least one person).

KotJ, I absolutely respect your right to believe that some aspects of this game go against the “spirit” of rugby, and that they would constitute cheating in the real world. I absolutely respect your right to believe that you can play this game as a rugby player or a gamer, but not both.

However, If players are playing within the rules of this game then they cannot be accused of cheating within this game. You cannot redefine the meaning of a word to suit your argument. That is where we disagree, it is not a question of respect or opinion. Cheating in a game of rugby in the real world and cheating in this game are different. I do not believe that that is open to debate or opinion, it is simply a fact.

KOTJ - there's a small clique on here that will support whatever each other say. I am real life captain of a rugby team that play @ a gd level ;). We share the same concepts as u do. Many players that have this app don't go on the forum as see it as a 'bit#hfest'. These concepts are shared by our guild across a v diverse bunch despite age, level, gender or race. We champion development. Every real life rugby team I have played in would say I respect yr opinion but this is mine.... It is pure weakness by others to provoke and insult... and isn't part of any rugby culture any one identifies with. PS some players may even play internationally for their country under false name and flag in our guild ;). I would therefore see certain players / keyboard warriors for what they are.... and ignore. Most would probably fall over trying to get a pair of rugby shorts on lol. Best to channel yr energies positively..., but not back at them. Don't forget they have to provoke, try and wind u up.. insult due to their insecurity. Your the better man fella :). Go easy bro.

Well, at least we agree on the first part.

On the second part, I will challenge you.
Can you show me the rule that say: “At rugby manager, you have to use Match fixing”, or even “At Rugby Manager, you are allowed to use match fixing”.
If you show me the written statement from the developers, I will agree with you.

If you tell me “as it s not written that you cannot use match fixing, it means it is allowed and you cannot say it s cheating”, then I don t agree with you. “Cheating” is not a about breaking a written/documented rule.
I mean if you re not sure, just read the definition of cheating.
To make it even simpler for you I will copy paste the definition... “...
Cheating is the receiving of a reward for ability or finding an easy way out of an unpleasant situation by dishonest means. It is generally used for the breaking of rules to gain unfair advantage in a competitive situation....
The rules infringed may be explicit, or they may be from an unwritten code of conduct based on morality, ethics or custom, making the identification of cheating conduct a potentially subjective process.”

So before asserting “I do not believe that that is open to debate or opinion, it is simply a fact.”, you just need to make sure you have a clear understanding of the definition of cheating.

Based on morality, and ethics, please explain me how you can justify that agreeing with your opponent on a draw to gain a benefit in a championship is not cheating.
And explain me why I can t think it s “cheating” as it goes for me against morality, ethics and code of conduct?
So, i definitely do not agree with your point when you say “it s not open for debate it s a fact”.. Players have the right to think it s cheating, by definition.
or you maybe don t agree with the dictionary.. which would be another debate.

I keep looking for the "like" button. Wish I could find it. Well said Hutchie

I believe that I understand the definition of the word “cheating”. You seem to be confusing it with the words “morality” and “ethics”.

I have no desire to argue with you over the definition of a word, so I will not post again on this thread. I respect your right to be wrong and hope that you will respect my right to be wrong. At least that way one of us will be right, probably.