David Raguin :
So having all these players has affected the club's sports results, for the saracens, you say it yourself. The club rankings play on the premiums paid by the league at the end of the season.
Clubs were therefore financially injured.
FRAUD
Are the clubs not involved in sports betting? But the league if, since it is permitted to bet on the results of the match, each bettor who has seen his team lose against the Saracens and therefore has lost the amount of his bet is entitled to file a complaint against the Saracens for fraud
The cagnanaise is absolutely not at such a level of deception, and of judicial incidence.
You have to be crazy to compare the impact of a video game with the impact of a business in real life ......
No but you're not going to seriously compare real life and its legal consequences with a video game, right?
Guest_54321 :
No, they did not. Neither club committed nor was implicated in sports betting. You are quite simply misrepresenting the truth there.
What both clubs did was cheat and bend the laws of the game to gain a competitive advantage - EXACTLY like Cagannaise do.
What Dean Richards did was basically manipulate/falsely represent his players as reagrds the blood replacement laws to circumvent the number of replacements allowed during a match. We've seen something very similar from France actually with Slimani and dubious HIA calls for leg injuries, but let's not go there for now...
What Saracens did was contravene the salary caps introduced by the IRU (not the judiciary or the executive) so that they could attract more and better players to bloat their squad to be able to field better players when resting other players - as is the nature of the game (as we know, the risk of injury and burn out is too high to play every game at that level). This gave them an unfair competitive advantage and allowed them to be more successful in a greater number of tournaments.
There is NO DIFFERENCE between what these clubs did and what La Cagnannaise openly do to gain a competitive advantage in a legal sense. None at all.
David Raguin :
They broke the law by making false sports bets.
There is fraudulent enrichment.
Which is reprehensible by law.
Which has nothing to do with what you blame the cagnainaise.
In addition you talk about cricket, we are on a game of rugby and you too do not answer when my idea of championship will solve the problem.
Crusaders RM :
Let’s change sport so u can get a clear indication of what these people are saying!!
Pakistan cricket players imprisoned and banned for 5 and 10 years for match fixing
Footballers banned just for placing a bet on games because they have inside information!!
This is the same for la cag they match fix and have inside information as they can clearly speak to and arrange the result of the game with there guild member
David Raguin :
The problem with your arguments is that these 2 examples speak of crimes committed against the law and which have been punished as crimes.
If these cases were brought to court, there would be much more severe penalties.
La cagnanaise, since you were quoting her, did not violate any law.
Especially since all the guilds did it more or less frankly.
And again, you do not respond to my idea of a new championship system that will solve the problem in a moral and legal way without resorting to denunciation.
Guest_54321 :
No let's not put this aside. You raise two VERY good examples of cheating in rugby. As you say Dean Richards hatched this crazy plan around using blood capsules and it was not just one match either, he did it in a very organised manner over several matches. What was the end result? read for yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodgate - Dean Richards received a 3-year ban and was sacked as manager of the club.
Saracens can actually be compared to Damage on RM in one respect. They found a loophole in the system, tweaked the numbers, did some very questionable shit around money, got exposed, held hands up and stopped doing it, got their wrists slapped and took the punishment on the chin. The result was they were knocked from top position in the rankings and it is taking many seasons to recover from this. Saracens have also been fined and demoted and will take a long time to recover.
La Cagnannaise, on the other hand, have been systematically cheating, opnely and boasting about it, for years on end and now that they are being threatened with possible punishment and sanctions, they are up in arms, crying indignation and calling everyone fascists and threatening legal action (!!!!!) and already plotting ways to circumvent the system. The arrogance of this is ABSOLUTELY STAGGERING.
David Raguin :
English clubs cheat a lot, sorry to put that on the carpet but can we talk about the Saracens? Or the quarterfinal of the European Cup between the Harlequins and the Leinster in April 2009 (the famous scandal of blood capsules).
The cheat did not come from France on these cases there seems to me, right?
But let's put that aside, let's talk about the championship system I submitted to you, what do you think?
Guest_54321 :
What you are talking about here is the severity of the nefarious action. One contravenes the law (although proving the case in a court of law is another matter entirely), the other contravenes the rules of the game. Both are cheating. Objectively and in the eyes of everyone, most especially the developers of the game.
David Raguin :
And if I am better than some because, maybe in YOUR EYES, I am a cheater but these are your values, respectable values as much as mine.
While those whom I criticize, while remaining polite and respectful, have violated the law by making themselves guilty of fraud, it is a crime!
We do not adhere to moral values or 'cheating', (to use your terms), to a video game.
We are talking about a crime punishable by the courts around the world.
Whatever makes you criticize me, please recognize that I am not guilty of any crime, which is to say that I am better than them
Because I have not broken any law.
In addition, I remain respectful towards everyone while trying to dialogue and to propose a system of moral championship and of a very big sporting interest.
It's certainly more moral than denunciation, isn't it?
ban :
Either way you spin it you’re cheating another player out of promotion buy throwing your game! Your no better than anyone else who have done something wrong in this game you’re defined by your own actions and you’re a cheat
David Raguin :
Hello Ban
Thanks for the question.
Choose between helping a comrade or a friend of my guild and let a stranger beat him, yes, I prefer to help my friend.
I understand that the unknown in itself disappointed but the camaraderie is an essential value in my eyes.
Especially since we do not lie, all guilds do it in a more or less frank way.
But the information does not shock you?
It is however immoral and punishable by law
The scams of which certain players have been guilty and which have necessarily slowed down the development of the game, so our pleasure, don't you mind?
It is however immoral and punishable by law.
It was however much more moral and legal to make championships where no member of guild meets.
As in any self-respecting sport or E-sport championship.
No championship has 2 clubs belonging to a single owner.
But Sweet Nitro chose the easy way and to break the laws by legitimizing the information.
No?
ban :
so fixing another paying player out of a promotion isn’t cheating but in your eyes it’s camaraderie! You really do have no shame trying to defend it and quite frankly the game is better off without u
so fixing another paying player out of a promotion isn’t cheating but in your eyes it’s camaraderie! You really do have no shame trying to defend it and quite frankly the game is better off without u
Hello Ban
Thanks for the question.
Choose between helping a comrade or a friend of my guild and let a stranger beat him, yes, I prefer to help my friend.
I understand that the unknown in itself disappointed but the camaraderie is an essential value in my eyes.
Especially since we do not lie, all guilds do it in a more or less frank way.
But the information does not shock you?
It is however immoral and punishable by law
The scams of which certain players have been guilty and which have necessarily slowed down the development of the game, so our pleasure, don't you mind?
It is however immoral and punishable by law.
It was however much more moral and legal to make championships where no member of guild meets.
As in any self-respecting sport or E-sport championship.
No championship has 2 clubs belonging to a single owner.
But Sweet Nitro chose the easy way and to break the laws by legitimizing the information.
No?
Either way you spin it you’re cheating another player out of promotion buy throwing your game! Your no better than anyone else who have done something wrong in this game you’re defined by your own actions and you’re a cheat
And if I am better than some because, maybe in YOUR EYES, I am a cheater but these are your values, respectable values as much as mine.
While those whom I criticize, while remaining polite and respectful, have violated the law by making themselves guilty of fraud, it is a crime!
We do not adhere to moral values or 'cheating', (to use your terms), to a video game.
We are talking about a crime punishable by the courts around the world.
Whatever makes you criticize me, please recognize that I am not guilty of any crime, which is to say that I am better than them
Because I have not broken any law.
In addition, I remain respectful towards everyone while trying to dialogue and to propose a system of moral championship and of a very big sporting interest.
It's certainly more moral than denunciation, isn't it?
What you are talking about here is the severity of the nefarious action. One contravenes the law (although proving the case in a court of law is another matter entirely), the other contravenes the rules of the game. Both are cheating. Objectively and in the eyes of everyone, most especially the developers of the game.
English clubs cheat a lot, sorry to put that on the carpet but can we talk about the Saracens? Or the quarterfinal of the European Cup between the Harlequins and the Leinster in April 2009 (the famous scandal of blood capsules).
The cheat did not come from France on these cases there seems to me, right?
But let's put that aside, let's talk about the championship system I submitted to you, what do you think?
No let's not put this aside. You raise two VERY good examples of cheating in rugby. As you say Dean Richards hatched this crazy plan around using blood capsules and it was not just one match either, he did it in a very organised manner over several matches. What was the end result? read for yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodgate - Dean Richards received a 3-year ban and was sacked as manager of the club.
Saracens can actually be compared to Damage on RM in one respect. They found a loophole in the system, tweaked the numbers, did some very questionable shit around money, got exposed, held hands up and stopped doing it, got their wrists slapped and took the punishment on the chin. The result was they were knocked from top position in the rankings and it is taking many seasons to recover from this. Saracens have also been fined and demoted and will take a long time to recover.
La Cagnannaise, on the other hand, have been systematically cheating, opnely and boasting about it, for years on end and now that they are being threatened with possible punishment and sanctions, they are up in arms, crying indignation and calling everyone fascists and threatening legal action (!!!!!) and already plotting ways to circumvent the system. The arrogance of this is ABSOLUTELY STAGGERING.
The problem with your arguments is that these 2 examples speak of crimes committed against the law and which have been punished as crimes.
If these cases were brought to court, there would be much more severe penalties.
La cagnanaise, since you were quoting her, did not violate any law.
Especially since all the guilds did it more or less frankly.
And again, you do not respond to my idea of a new championship system that will solve the problem in a moral and legal way without resorting to denunciation.
Let’s change sport so u can get a clear indication of what these people are saying!!
Pakistan cricket players imprisoned and banned for 5 and 10 years for match fixing
Footballers banned just for placing a bet on games because they have inside information!!
This is the same for la cag they match fix and have inside information as they can clearly speak to and arrange the result of the game with there guild member
They broke the law by making false sports bets.
There is fraudulent enrichment.
Which is reprehensible by law.
Which has nothing to do with what you blame the cagnainaise.
In addition you talk about cricket, we are on a game of rugby and you too do not answer when my idea of championship will solve the problem.
No, they did not. Neither club committed nor was implicated in sports betting. You are quite simply misrepresenting the truth there.
What both clubs did was cheat and bend the laws of the game to gain a competitive advantage - EXACTLY like Cagannaise do.
What Dean Richards did was basically manipulate/falsely represent his players as reagrds the blood replacement laws to circumvent the number of replacements allowed during a match. We've seen something very similar from France actually with Slimani and dubious HIA calls for leg injuries, but let's not go there for now...
What Saracens did was contravene the salary caps introduced by the IRU (not the judiciary or the executive) so that they could attract more and better players to bloat their squad to be able to field better players when resting other players - as is the nature of the game (as we know, the risk of injury and burn out is too high to play every game at that level). This gave them an unfair competitive advantage and allowed them to be more successful in a greater number of tournaments.
There is NO DIFFERENCE between what these clubs did and what La Cagnannaise openly do to gain a competitive advantage in a legal sense. None at all.
So having all these players has affected the club's sports results, for the saracens, you say it yourself. The club rankings play on the premiums paid by the league at the end of the season.
Clubs were therefore financially injured.
FRAUD
Are the clubs not involved in sports betting? But the league if, since it is permitted to bet on the results of the match, each bettor who has seen his team lose against the Saracens and therefore has lost the amount of his bet is entitled to file a complaint against the Saracens for fraud
The cagnanaise is absolutely not at such a level of deception, and of judicial incidence.
You have to be crazy to compare the impact of a video game with the impact of a business in real life ......
No but you're not going to seriously compare real life and its legal consequences with a video game, right?
You've drifted into fantasy land and pure speculation as regards Saracens. If anyone were ever to bring a case against them for losing their bet, the burden of proof is so onerous, it wouldn't get past a preliminary hearing.
You continue to defend the indefensible - what La Cagnannaise are doing is cheating the laws of the video game. How do we know this? Simply write a ticket to Sweet Nitro and ask them if they condone or have ever condoned match-fixing. In this video game, it is Sweet Nitro who set the laws and they have categorically stated on numerous occasions that match-fixing is cheating and they oppose it.
Also, you brought up the examples of Leicester and Saracens, not me. However, they are good examples because, afterall, we are debating the spirit of rugby and the essential ethos of ovalism.